Lots of Questions

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Lots of Questions

Post  forbes on Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:09 am

Hi Ian

Really liking the rules - only had a solo play though, and a good read so far, but have a few lots of queries

Heavy Cavalry - quite a few units are noted as heavy cavalry, but I can't see any specific rules for heavy cavalry, that are different to just cavalry. I can see a couple of rules for light cavalry.

Moving Through Friendly Units - Can a unit move through a friendly unit? What if one of the units is a Light unit? I have seen the rules for clipping and for retreats - and may be reading too much into what the retreat rules allow vs the clipping rules. The image at bottom of p15 only mentions enemy unit blocking the move - does this apply to all units?

Unit Sizes Where the number of bases is given (e.g. 4 to 12 or 2-6). Does the unit always have to have that number of bases in the front rank? As this makes skirmisher units long thin lines or big blocks. Also the sizes seem to vary between army lists in the books and the Core Army lists. Are these sizes crucial, or can they vary a bit - elite units seem to be able to have smaller sizes.

Flanks - When can you charge an enemy's flank? While most situations are obvious - there are times were this can be ambiguous, so it would be good to know the official intention.

Aligning to flank Defending unit is a single base deep unit, hit in the flank (so on a 20mm edge). Does the attacking unit slide over so that it has two stands in contact (one corner to corner) or does it stay with a single stand aligned on its middle? I think that it would slide over.

Points - the core army lists seem to have quite different points (especially for cavalry) than the lists in the main book. is this just different generations of points, or are there actual differences between units. Also the Anglo Saxon archers seem very expensive at 16pts, I would expect 8-10 from the other lists.

Fight Factor Example - at the bottom of p43 - it states that the Franks get 8 re-rolls (which tallies with the yellow box above), but then gives 6 and 5 re-rolls to the two units. Is this a typo?

Chariot - In Core Army List gives D18 for Discipline. I assume this is meant to be D8

20x40 based Cavalry - we have lots of 'short' edge based cavalry (from Warmaster Fantasty) we are going to use these 2 stands together, to make as single 40x40mm base. This will obviously make units deeper. Is this likely to have any major game play impact? We will need to do the same for chariots and siege engines.

Sorry for all of the above!!! Embarassed 

We are going to give the rules a proper try out on Friday - Empire vs Goblins figures.

I will also have to get some more Romans painted up, so you can have a battle report to go with the Army list with my cavalry on it  Very Happy 

forbes
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Re: Lots of Questions

Post  IanHannam on Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:16 pm

Hi Forbes, welcome to the forum! I am currently at work at the moment, but thanks for the post, I will endeaver to give you a full response later on tonight! Thanks

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Re: Lots of Questions

Post  IanHannam on Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:55 am

Thanks for the rules queries, it's good to know people are reading the rules through and trying them out as you have, so first off, a massive thanks for taking the time. I will do my best to address your questions and hopefully clear up any confusion.

Heavy Cavalry - Heavy cavalry is a designation that more denotes the unit's armour value as well as the fact you generally require fewer of them to form a unit/rank of a unit. There are no specific rules at this point for heavy cavalry - I apologise for any confusion here.

Moving Through Friendly Units - P15 states 'There are instances when a unit, in the course of its movement may be stopped from moving by 'clipping' a
unit (friendly or enemy).' so no, normally it isn't possible for a unit to move through a friendly unit (unless retreating). The reference to light units in the retreat rules, explains that light units never cause a Morale test upon a unit it retreats through. If this is something you felt you wanted to house rule, I would suggest following the clipping rules (discipline test) in order to move through the friendly unit and allow light units to bypass the test.  

Unit Sizes - The unit size minimum is the minimum number of bases that should be in the front rank where possible (if there are still that many on the board for a start). Unit size minimums vary to allow smaller blocks of elite troops, the decision to keep lighter units wider was done to keep the feel of the early medieval battleline.

Flanks - When a charge is declared, the player should note which side the majority of the charging models are facing. This can be done by simply drawing a 45 degree arc out of each side of the unit being charged. If the majority of the charging models fall within the front arc, the unit charges the front, if the majority lie in the flank arc, the flank is charged.

Aligning to flank - You are quite right, you would slide the unit over to allow more bases to fight.

Points - The lists given in the main rulebook are somewhat themed so that some lists are allowed to take units cheaper than others to encourage a more 'realistic' looking army. In the case of rule book list vs core list, the core list allows many stripped back choices making them at times cheaper. e.g. knights in the rulebook come ready equipped with javelins - to some degree the differences are generational, but prices may vary and a premium on flexibility may be seen particularly in the core list. It is advisable that the core list be used against other core lists as opposed to core lists vs rules book lists to mitigate the price differences.

Fight Factor Example - Ah, a gremlin! Indeed this is a mistake

Chariot - And another...that would be one powerful chariot! D8 is correct

Cavalry bases - It shouldn't have too much impact at all so long as players are happy to allow the same number of attacks that units would normally be afforded in the fight phase if it were based on a 40mm wide base. Similarly, I would suggest when hit in the flank the number of attacks against the unit would need to be worked out as if the unit had 20mm sides.

I hope this goes some way to clearing things up, please let me know if there is anything else you are uncertain of!

Thanks again,
Ian

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Re: Lots of Questions

Post  forbes on Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:41 pm

Hi Ian

Thanks for taking the time to reply to all these questions of mine, it does help a lot to clarify things in my head!

With regard to Skirmishers, unit length and inter-penetration of units I thinning I was struggling to see how a skirmish line in front of your own troops would get out of the way to allow your combat infantry to charge. Perhaps the skirmishers don't they keep peppering the enemy with missiles until charged?

forbes
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Re: Lots of Questions

Post  IanHannam on Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:26 am

I see where you are coming from, and it is certainly something I will consider developing some experimental rules for!

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Re: Lots of Questions

Post  forbes on Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:31 am

We played a 450 pt game last night - and it went well, as always the first play of a new rule set is a bit slow to start with, but by about half-way things were moving along nicely.

I do like the attritional nature of the combat, combats take several turns, giving chance for you to bring reserves in, or to tar-pit enemy units.

The different dice work well - giving a good feel between poor, OK and good units. I've just ordered a load more d4 and d8s as need more than 3 of each!!

Knights with heavy armour proved very tough - I don't think they suffered a wound all game. And steadily beat their way through several enemy units (all of which were very low quality).

Javelin throws from a big unit can be deadly - I lost 3 stands to one volley and my unit retreated!!

The Discipline roll works well - just enough friction to be interesting but not the 'half the army does nothing' issue of Warmaster. My Oppo managed 3 1s in a single, turn all on d8s, and including the re-roll from his Noble. I tried not to laugh  bounce 

A couple of queries:

Charges into Cover / Over Barriers - we couldn't see any rules giving the defender and advantage for being in / behind cover when charged. We tried the following
Fight Strength, +1 (like being uphill), all re-roll of half of Armour saves (like shooting), cavalry don't get their dice upgrade for charging.

Destroyed Enemy - What can the victorious unit do? We choose a discipline roll to allow a reform (like Refraining after a retreat)

Rash Charge - no visible enemy - We had a cavalry unit near a wood, that got a 1 on its Discipline test. It had no enemies it could see in any direction (they were all blocked by terrain). We thought it odd that it the unit would turn to face a unit it couldn't see (as opposed to one that was out of its arc of visibility). So just left the unit standing in place, milling around slight confused!

Rash Charge - distance - Does a unit get +1d4 movement on a rash charge. I think not due to the wording at the top of the second column of p12, but we weren't 100% sure.

If anyone is interested I can post up our Imperial and Goblin army lists.

forbes
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Re: Lots of Questions

Post  forbes on Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:49 am

Anyone out there?

forbes
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Re: Lots of Questions

Post  IanHannam on Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:38 am

Hello! Sorry for the delay in reply

As for your queries:
Charges into Cover / Over Barriers - I agree with your suggestions, this would bring it inline with shooting making it a more universal rule

Destroyed Enemy - Again, yep, that sounds reasonable and gives the unit a benefit for doing well.

Rash Charge - no visible enemy - Rules as written say that it turns to nearest enemy (even if not visible) but I agree, this is certainly something worth considering - perhaps the nearest enemy that would be visible if the unit were to turn? This would rule out the situation that you experienced.

Rash Charge - No they don't get the bonus as they aren't doing it in an ordered manner!

I would love to take a look at the lists you used! Did you happen to take any snaps?

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Re: Lots of Questions

Post  forbes on Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:32 am

Thanks for the answers.

Unfortunately no snaps - too busy trying to understand how to play!

I will post up the lists

forbes
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